tingyun-skill-talent-info | KQM Transcripts

KQM | Honkai: Star Rail

tingyun-skill-talent-info

443 messages

TiBotMon, May 1, 2023, 10:08 PM

@Neirod | SW #1 Fan - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket

Guidelines
- You can rename your ticket with /rename <ticket name> or with the button below
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Write-up Format

Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:12 PM

Theory: Tingyun's skill and talent both have weird scaling based on the ally or herself, so how does Lightning% buffs (and possibly others) work?
Evidence: see screenshots
Significance: Based on where each scaling works building of Tingyun and/or her teammates might be completely different.

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:12 PM

btw to set up theoryhunt, do /theoryhunt create

should be a low difficulty

and i'd think requirements are: have tingyun. have 1 electro dmg bonus gear piece

and you don't need to do the full format of the findings rn, since we haven't found anything concrete. just has to be done before ticket close iirc based upon kqm tickets

@Neirod | SW #1 Fan can you try setting that up? to see if it all works

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:18 PM

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:19 PM

ope let me check abt that

if that's supposed to be happening i'll set it up

Reply to

sky: and you don't need to do the full format of the findings rn, since we haven't found anything concrete. just has to be done before ticket close iirc based upon kqm tickets

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:19 PM

I'm trying to do what's asked of me, tbh sometimes it's really hard to fill this little form thingy xD

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:20 PM

it's all good lol

okay yeah I checked and it should be like that

I can set it up

soul_fishMon, May 1, 2023, 10:20 PM

TH creation is supposed to be scholar or I guess staff only

Just provide a draft and it can be created for you

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:22 PM

I can use your post that you made for it

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:22 PM

But there is no scholar role here

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:22 PM

yeah it's just tc staff

terminology left over from kqm

kqm gi

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:22 PM

~~I wanna be redname gang kekw~~

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:23 PM

there's apps

#applications

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:23 PM

I think I did one, so it's not been reviewed yet or I'm not accepted

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyways no worries, as long as I can help and contribute, staff or not, I don't mind

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:26 PM

hmm. how do you want people to submit this?

basically, what do you want in the details field? just screenshots of dmg w/ electro bonus and without?

actually, I can just give you the form if you'd like. realize we don't have it pinned

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:30 PM

hmmm. Yeah, obviously on the same enemy , might be interesting to find how crits work as well with this. That might be all, just electro bonus on Tingyun/on blessed ally and crit findings.

soul_fishMon, May 1, 2023, 10:30 PM

Details is just whatever you need the ones who do it to do, it can be short, or long etc

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:34 PM

So:
Record the difference in damage with a Lightning% bonus on Tingyun and on the blessed ally to find out which comes into play. For Skill and Talent.
Also record the same thing with big Crit Rate instead of Lightning% to determine which unit's Crit Rate is used for both Skill and Talent.

I think that might be good?

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:35 PM

sure i'll put that in

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:35 PM

Thanks

Also if not too late, it should be C difficulty imo? (recording of small changes based on relics)

choumariMon, May 1, 2023, 10:40 PM

maybe b difficulty in terms of having the right relics for testing?

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:42 PM

Yeah that's true, since to have accurate results on the Lightning% part, the attack stats of both Tingyun and the blessed character needs to be similar with and without the relic

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:47 PM

k. the theoryhunt is edited properly

but I believe it's still displayed incorrectly lol

commissioner is now neirod

choumariMon, May 1, 2023, 10:49 PM

it's now d difficulty

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:49 PM

it originally was lol

I changed it

choumariMon, May 1, 2023, 10:49 PM

oh fr?

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:50 PM

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:51 PM

weird it hasn't updated yet

choumariMon, May 1, 2023, 10:51 PM

what's deleted role

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:51 PM

a deleted role obviously

choumariMon, May 1, 2023, 10:52 PM

true

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:52 PM

tibo is aware of that issue

choumariMon, May 1, 2023, 10:56 PM

ok i go back to lurking, gl

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 10:56 PM

Thanks, have fun!

skyMon, May 1, 2023, 10:59 PM

@Neirod | SW #1 Fan can you check if #theoryhunt info is all g now?

Neirod | SW #1 FanMon, May 1, 2023, 11:00 PM

All good, thanks 👍
So, real findings start here
----------------------------

falkynTue, May 2, 2023, 04:53 AM

tested on forgotten hall floor 2 with tingyun buffing clara

with 12% damage on break passive from fall of aeons active and a phys% artifact

232 damage, same damage for basic attack or counter

once fall of aeons buff dropped off, 207 damage, again same for basic attack or counter

swapped to a +6 4* lightning damage artifact with no attack substats

on clara

256 damage with break passive and the 15.4% lightning damage relic

once fall of aeons buff dropped off, 232 damage

so it seems like the generic dmg% from the lightcone affects the damage

and the lightning dmg% of the unit receiving the buff affects the damage

tingyuns artifacts were unchanged between these two tests

other team members in the test were march 7th and natasha, who I do not think provided any sort of damage buffs

each instance of tingyun extra hit damage was recorded 3 times, with and without fall of aeons buff, with and without lightning dmg% artifact

no variation in damage numbers were produced in each case

Neirod | SW #1 FanTue, May 2, 2023, 05:00 AM

Are those recording for the Talent Bonus hit or Skill Bonus hit

falkynTue, May 2, 2023, 05:01 AM

skill bonus hit on clara's attacks

Neirod | SW #1 FanTue, May 2, 2023, 05:02 AM

OK so it seems it's entirely based on the buffed character's stats

falkynTue, May 2, 2023, 05:02 AM

yeah

so tingyun will definitely synergize best with another electro DPS

Neirod | SW #1 FanTue, May 2, 2023, 05:04 AM

Yeah seems like it's the case, but she still brings a lot of value to a lot of other teams.

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 09:15 AM

Hey, been poking around the TC stuff in here and was wondering if you still wanted some testing done here or if your result was decisive enough

I've got the requirements and some time to kill so if you want me to throw together a spreadsheet real quick I could get one done

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 01:21 PM

Honestly further proof would be nice, I trust Falkyn, but more data is always good

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 04:07 PM

Won't have a chance to go at it for another 9ish hours but I'll start working on something

I understand that Falkyn found that the electro % increased dmg for tingyun's skill bonus but was there any indication that it adjusted her talent bonus at all?

I'll check later, just want to know what I should expect to find.

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 04:21 PM

Based on what Falkyn found, when Tingyun's Skill is used the Blessed unit's bonus hit from the Blessing damage is affected by the Lighting DMG% of the Blessed unit, and is affected by overall DMG% increases of the Blessed unit's damage.

So in short it seems like the Blessing adds a bonus hit to the Blessed unit based on Tingyun's ATK (I also assume this is snapshotted), but the hit itself is considered to be the Blessed unit's hit.

It hasn't been tested with adding Lightning% to Tingyun, and with her Talent.

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 04:24 PM

I'll switch the goblet when I try it

I'm also looking at her talent cause the ally with benediction is supposed to share back 36% of their attack when Ting attacks and I wonder if anything weird is happening with that too

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 04:26 PM

Thanks! Yeah those kind of buffs are interesting, figuring out how they work will most likely help with building those kind of characters.

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 04:27 PM

For sure. Squeezing out more damage depending on if shes with another electro unit could be pretty huge

assuming that is how that works

Is there any enemy in particular I should test on?

Nvm i see it forgotten hall floor 2

Trying to cut out as many external factors as I can so I'll be running plain lightcones and only one or two relics

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 04:38 PM

Well it's not the "official" test zone, but yeah testing everything in the same place is good

Reply to

daitobyte: Trying to cut out as many external factors as I can so I'll be running plain lightcones and only one or two relics

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 04:38 PM

Amazing

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 05:04 PM

Lightning% on tingyun is doing absolutely nothing for her skill nor talent

The only thing it impacts on her is the damage of her 2 auto attacks, So building atk on her is for sure the move

Gonna give the goblet to the other teammate now and grab those numbers

After that I'll do some crit tests then I'll send the whole sheet

I KNEW IT

Electro goblet on teammate not only increases her skill damage given to them, it also increases the Talent damage SHE receives

So by running her with an electro dps on a electric goblet you double dip into a stat increase for her and her teammate

🤩3

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 05:14 PM

Holy shit

it's huge

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 05:14 PM

Yeah

thats massive

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 05:14 PM

So the unit's bonus hit is "its" hit, but the Tingyun's bonus hit is also the blessed unit's hit?

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 05:15 PM

Correct

and even though it says it only scales off that blessed units atk, its apparently also effected by the lighting % buff

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 05:15 PM

If every unit with this kind of mechanic works the same

it's verygood

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 05:15 PM

no atk rolls on my goblet so this damage has to be coming from that

sorry planar ornament

i have genshin brain

Reply to

daitobyte: and even though it says it only scales off that blessed units atk, its apparently also effected by the lighting % buff

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 05:16 PM

I assume the initial damage is calcd with its ATK, but every damage boost is also applied to it

Yeah no worries I understood what you mean xD

skyThu, May 4, 2023, 05:16 PM

I think also we ideally want video/photo evidence, let me check how these usually go

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 05:17 PM

Oh yeah

true

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 05:17 PM

Aight, lemme know I'll have to download some software for video

I've got it all in a spreadsheet atm but if need be I can do it again

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 05:17 PM

You can take screenshots, it's a little bit tedious but at least you don't have to record

even tho recording might be the best

skyThu, May 4, 2023, 05:19 PM

yeah screenshot is probably fine, just make sure it's on imgur or something

menorThu, May 4, 2023, 05:19 PM

you might have a video software installed by default depending on your pc

i didnt knew i had that xbox thingy to record stuff untill some months later lmao

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 05:20 PM

I don't but I'm download obs atm

skyThu, May 4, 2023, 05:20 PM

relevant info from kqm gi

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 05:21 PM

~~Will we get the equivalent to Scholars in HSR?~~

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 05:21 PM

I presume I have to contribute to more than just one topic for something like that

skyThu, May 4, 2023, 05:21 PM

dunno

not everything has been hammered out regarding things like that yet

Reply to

daitobyte: I presume I have to contribute to more than just one topic for something like that

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 05:22 PM

Well afaik there's not even the equivalent role yet

skyThu, May 4, 2023, 05:22 PM

i'll ask for the ticket info post to be duped here at least

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 05:22 PM

Oh yeah no worries skylarke it's not been long, I'm not pressuring anything

Like I assume y'all have plenty of stuff to do already

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 05:23 PM

I'm gonna run some rudimentary crit tests just to see if theres anything weird going on there and then I'll record proof of it

👍1

skyThu, May 4, 2023, 05:23 PM

I mean it's good to find out what's needed thru things like this

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 05:49 PM

Okay its definitely not going to be decisive but just to be able to tell at a glance I'm gonna try the crit test with 50% crit on each character, attacking 50 times and recording how many times I crit in 50 total attacks

Okay I only just started testing but tingyun's talent and skill are critting an awful lot for someone who only has 5% crit chance

curious

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 06:18 PM

So crit chance also based on the blessed unit's stats?

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 06:18 PM

Yeah tingyun is borrowing a LOT more stats then the game makes it sound like she is

it seems so

unless she just crit 6 times in a row on a 5% chance

but ill keep testing to make sure this isnt just a miracle

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 06:19 PM

Tingyun's getting better and better

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 06:19 PM

Yeah this is

very weird to be honest

It seems like instead of ATK she just straight up takes the final calculated damage of her selected target in everything she does

Talent and skill are both certainly misleading there

I shouldnt jump to that conclusion yet but

Its leaning in that direction

With the crit on Bailu, the person I'm currently buffing with tingyun

Her skill activation crit 7/10 times despite Ting having 5% crit chance

And her Talent activated also 7/10 times

Calc was done with 51.9% crit chance on Bailu

I will now switch the gear and repeat

And I know X/10 isnt very thorough of me but for the sake of me having not slept in 24 hours and wanting to get this sheet sent before i sleep I'm holding off on that for now

Okay I will not be putting together video evidence of the crit thing until later today when I wake up but i can say with 98% certainty that Ting is taking the Crit of the buffed teammate to calculate her extra hits on both her talent and passive

This character is insane

menorThu, May 4, 2023, 06:34 PM

oh damn, it should use the character crit dmg too i assume?

so it just sounds like the character buffed is doing that dmg whenever she atks if all that is the case

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 06:34 PM

I'm way to tired to math that out rn but it seems like that would track given its taking into account the electro bonus and crit chance

Yeah its essentially

She is allowing her teammate to hit again

With electro conversion

On both her attack and thiers

menorThu, May 4, 2023, 06:35 PM

thats very nice

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 06:36 PM

So it is accurate that she is technically getting more value with an electro dps but even without that she is getting a stupid amount of value just being with a crit character

I have no idea how a character this strong made it live

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 06:37 PM

Seems that the logic is that her Skill and Talent are both treated as the blessed unit's hit

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 06:38 PM

That would be accurate

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 06:38 PM

the only thing that is not is the initial damage calc which is done based on her ATK for her skill, and on the ally's ATK for the talent

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 06:38 PM

Assuming that is working as intended, yes

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 06:38 PM

Everything after that seems to be calced based on the unit's stats

Yeah, so if you're gonna sleep, sleep well, we'l awaiting awaiting your proofs, even tho I trust you, but we need it

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 06:40 PM

I'm gonna drop the spreadsheet as soon as I finish the last of these non crit runs and then i'm gonna grab video proof of the goblet thing, then start rendering it before I sleep

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 06:43 PM

Godsent

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 06:44 PM

okay I've yet to crit on this passive with the crit stuff on tingyun so this is pretty damning so far

I forgot to hit the start recording button 💀

time to do all that again

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 06:56 PM

I'm so sorry for you

💀

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 06:56 PM

LMAOOOO don't test while tired or youll do shit like this

Alright lightning orb proof of concept is recorded ill do crit stuff later

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18swR7bqRVjG6RI0FHuKryU5OZ9Cs9q5OwP3PG1Gtc3s/edit?usp=sharing

Tingyun-skill-talent-info

Sheet1

Base,Tingyun Lightning %,Teammate (Bailu) Lightning %,Tested by DaitoByte#1545
Damage from Tingyun Skill,73,73,82
Damage from Tingyun Talent,102,102,114
Tingyun Base Damage,101,43,113,48,101,43
Bailu Base Damage,120,120,134
Tingyun auto skill active,101,43,102,113,102,48,43,101,114
Bailu ...

Purely numbers atm, I'll get the videos together as soon as I can

I've a final tomorrow but after that I'll get more definitive crit testing since running a test 10 times isn't a whole lot as far as crit chance goes

Holy christ obs defaults to .mkv files for some reason

welp 3rd times the charm on the rerecord I suppose

Aside from me grabbing video proof of both of these is there anything else I should add?

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 07:25 PM

Not that I can think of right now, you've already helped so much tho (lmao I still don't have the necessary relics to search this, literally couldn't have done it myself)

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 07:26 PM

Yeah I'm quite lucky to actually have a lighting % orb without atk stats otherwise this is impossible to test

I mean you could still math it out but

That sounds miserable

I had it much easier

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 07:27 PM

Yeah, and since we have other tc projects it's way easier if there's someone with the optimal relics to help with it.

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 07:38 PM

Alright I'm rendering it but I'm telling you right now I'm not a video editor so if this is too clunky someone needs to tell me how to fix it

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 07:40 PM

I think we'll just use it as proof, we're not looking for a masterpiece

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 07:41 PM

The crit stuff will probably have to wait until either super late 5/5 or 5/6 cause those numbers are a bit more of a pain to show and prove in the span of a few minutes

and I'm a little busy until then

I'll drop this video link in the spreadsheet and then I'm out, if anyone ends up needing me to clarify something or redo something feel free to ping me

Neirod | SW #1 FanThu, May 4, 2023, 07:43 PM

No worries take your time

daitobyteThu, May 4, 2023, 07:50 PM

I think the crit part is arguably a bigger deal than the lightning % thing so I'll try to get that done when I can

What's the best way for me to go about proving this crit thing

I can compile a video of like 20 test runs on 50% crit chance but I don't have 100% CC gear to unequivocally prove it

is there some modifier somewhere that i can force crit chance onto someone

Testing for crit is done and added to the doc, I'll link an uncut video of the testing there as well

I'm wondering now that we're this deep if I should test crit damage as well

If lightning % on her teammate affects her skill and talent damage, and both of those read off her teammates crit chance, then what are the odd's shes also taking crit damage from them? break effect? not sure how deep we want to go here

menorFri, May 5, 2023, 09:23 AM

go all the way

i think the easiest way to test crit and crit dmg would be with a yaqing maybe?

since he could get 100% crit easy with just his kit and a crit chance chest

unfortunatly i dont have him

daitobyteFri, May 5, 2023, 09:29 AM

Yeah I don't either

I probably have a spare crit dmg artifact somewhere with no atk rolls

I could just use that for proof of concept

As far as break effect goes, thats outside my expertise

I don't fully understand how that works by default

I can test crit damage in the same way I did lightning % though so I can get around to it eventually

Still rendering the crit chance video though

menorFri, May 5, 2023, 09:33 AM

im assuming additional dmg like hers dont apply any break dmg on the toughness bar i believe, so it would just be straight up broken if the ally break dmg apllied to ting's break while he has the buff up

at least from using her normally i never noticed any break dmg from having her buff up and not having it, its not hard to test it tho i could do a quick test here

yeah, it doesnt seem to be dealing any break dmg, neither when she has the additional dmg from buffing an ally, nor for the ally with the additional electro dmg on them, just one more test to go

that is buffing another electro unit and seeing in the break increases

daitobyteFri, May 5, 2023, 09:41 AM

Thats good to know

One less thing I have to put into a spreadsheet

menorFri, May 5, 2023, 09:42 AM

nope, it doesnt

daitobyteFri, May 5, 2023, 09:42 AM

Cool, I'll get around to the crit damage test and then we can wrap this one up

menorFri, May 5, 2023, 09:43 AM

ofc this test is only for break on the bar, if for some weird reason she gets a break dmg bonus bcz of bug or the way her skills is coded is still up in the air

i dont have any meingfull break effect gear so i dont think i can test that

daitobyteFri, May 5, 2023, 09:44 AM

Theres no reason to believe that she does, I was mostly spitballing when I sent that message

Then again there was no reason to believe she was using her teammates crit chance so

menorFri, May 5, 2023, 09:44 AM

could be fun to test just to be safe

yeah...

skyFri, May 5, 2023, 09:49 AM

hilariously, I got a yanqing 5 minutes ago. so technically can help now

but. no tingyun

daitobyteFri, May 5, 2023, 09:50 AM

If we wanted to bad enough I could make her my support character and you could use mine but

I don't think hes that necessary for this tbh

skyFri, May 5, 2023, 09:50 AM

yeah agreed

daitobyteFri, May 5, 2023, 09:51 AM

Proof of concept is there, if that isn't damning enough then I'll let someone with a bigger wallet than I go crazy

skyFri, May 5, 2023, 09:52 AM

yeah who knows if someone has the right things. also I don't have a lightning dmg bonus piece so that would be my barrier although I think my yanqing wouldn't have too much crit issues

daitobyteFri, May 5, 2023, 09:53 AM

Well the lightning thing is done

and that ones absolutely proven

the problem is that because I lack 100% crit chance there is a margin of error in the crit testing

I mean its pretty obvious shes using her teammates but if we wanted to be super precise it'd be better to eliminate that

The crit damage is also something I can do without it being arguable