champion-set-stacks | KQM Transcripts

KQM | Honkai: Star Rail

champion-set-stacks

449 messages

TiBotSat, May 27, 2023, 10:50 PM

@sky - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket

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Write-up Format

Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion

This ticket has been renamed to champion-set-stacks by @sky

skySat, May 27, 2023, 10:54 PM

Main purpose: some more definition of what constitutes an 'attack'.

Reminder: Use external hosting sites like imgur, youtube, for your videos

Also, please timestamp the relevant parts of your videos for me.

Character of interest needs Champion of Streetwise Boxing https://srl.keqingmains.com/equipment/relics#champion-of-streetwise-boxing equipped w/ 4pc bonus. Looking for when the number of stacks increase, so will need to ideally occur earlier in the fight:
* ~~Herta: does follow up attack generate stacks~~
* ~~When benediction is applied to a character, does that character's attacks generate 1 or 2 stacks (does benediction count as a separate attack?)~~
* ~~When dealing damage with an ult (any damage ult), does the ult generate stacks~~
* When a character applies a DoT to the enemy (such as sampo), does the DoT damage generate stacks?
* If yes to the previous, what happens when multiple DoTs are applied to the enemy?
* ~~When Serval attacks a shocked enemy, does she gain 1 or 2 stacks~~
* If you have the set + the 3* Nihility Hidden Shadow lightcone equipped (https://srl.keqingmains.com/equipment/lightcones/nihility#hidden-shadow), does the basic attack which deals additional damage generate 1 or 2 stacks
* Pela E6: when attacking a debuffed enemy, does it generate 1 or 2 stacks
* Yanqing A1: when attacking enemies with ice weakness, does it generate 1 or 2 stacks
* Clara: Does her counter (doesnt matter which) generate 1 or 2 stacks
* ~~March follow-up attack~~
* ~~Sushang sword stance, does it count?~~

@unleashurgeek think this has everything needed?

unleashurgeekSat, May 27, 2023, 10:55 PM

👍

@miannes bully folks to contribute to this if you want kirara in sim soon

skySat, May 27, 2023, 10:55 PM

I'll make a #│theorycrafting post

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:24 PM

👍 i can cook some characters for that

https://i.imgur.com/iqH7iGn.png

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:24 PM

👀

make sure to host image/video on external sites

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:26 PM

hmmm maybe i need a better recording software

the xbox one thats comes with windows is kinda iffy

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:28 PM

it's ok it just needs to work

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:28 PM

hm, i'll use it on march for the first test cuz its the easiest follow up imo

and has a damaging ult so thats 2 out of the way i guess

then i'll test sampo for dots

unleashurgeekSat, May 27, 2023, 11:31 PM

a herta test would be good if you can get herta to do multiple hits with her follow up (multiple enemies go below 50%) but it should be the same outcome as with March counter I think

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:31 PM

yeah

got the march test

oh lmao

i recorded the worng screen 💀

okay got sampo at least

youtube is being cringe, is there a problem if i just send the video files here directly?

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:44 PM

yes

channel will eventually be deleted

so needs to be external site

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:45 PM

okay i think i got sampo out of the way

https://youtu.be/KAjem9Q_PZo

Honkai Star Rail 2023 05 27 20 33 36

elnawawiSat, May 27, 2023, 11:45 PM

Hmmm, I use this set with Sushang, do you want tests on her? Though her sword stance is not follow up attack

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:45 PM

uploading march test now

march now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy88_rKBPkw

Honkai Star Rail 2023 05 27 20 38 13

Reply to

elnawawi: Hmmm, I use this set with Sushang, do you want tests on her? Though her sword stance is not follow up attack

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:47 PM

that wasn't on the list, but if you'd like to I'm down to add it to the list

i'll add a catch-all case of 'other cases that seem interesting are worth adding' or something

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:48 PM

my guess for the stacks is any action that shows up on the action list? so ults, normal turn atks and follow ups?

that deals dmg ofc

those types of actions

https://i.imgur.com/OfQzsyu.png

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:48 PM

i mean that's the guess but there's some weird stuff in dm

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:49 PM

hmmm

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:49 PM

https://discord.com/channels/1089339185611145297/1103469050807468092/1112130991914504202

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:49 PM

any character i should test it out in particular ?

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:49 PM

just the listed?

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:49 PM

dont have clara nor yaqing E1

lemme go check the list again

i think sampo and march covered the benediction part

unless i equipped ting with the set too to see if anything weird would happen

i'll try serval now

Reply to

elnawawi: Hmmm, I use this set with Sushang, do you want tests on her? Though her sword stance is not follow up attack

unleashurgeekSat, May 27, 2023, 11:52 PM

yeah definitely. I didn't initially list sushang mainly because how her additional damage works is a bit more complex than the other cases

elnawawiSat, May 27, 2023, 11:53 PM

Benediction on Sushang doesn't generate additional stack, only one.

Sushang technique generate stack

Her sword stance doesn't generate additional stacks

Uploading video will take some time though

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:55 PM

hmm i'm not quite sure abt the march video

for benediction

give sec i may need to redo to see but idk when it stacks

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:55 PM

hmmm

wait a sec

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:56 PM

oh wait is that follow-up attacks?

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:56 PM

yes

march follows up generate the stacks

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:56 PM

follow up + benediction?

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:56 PM

i can try without it

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:56 PM

nah it's fine

i just need to recount how many follow-ups occured

unleashurgeekSat, May 27, 2023, 11:57 PM

based on the Sampo video Benediction shouldn't cause a stack to be added

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:57 PM

i need to put it back on march anyway cuz

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:57 PM

yeah

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:57 PM

i wanna test something now

cuz serval entrance tech gave her stacks

but march i dont remember if it did

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:57 PM

so ig this is march followup = an attack
benediction = not an attack?

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:57 PM

but both says they atk the targets

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:57 PM

here i'll make a list and pin

Reply to

sky: so ig this is march followup = an attack

unleashurgeekSat, May 27, 2023, 11:58 PM

yeah basically it's saying that "attack" is more a phase of combat rather than anything linked to actual attacks itself

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:59 PM

Evidence compilation:
Is in "Attack" Phase
Does proc champion's

* March Follow-up (https://youtu.be/fy88_rKBPkw?t=26)
* Sushang Technique (https://youtu.be/K-xIcPVVTQk?t=3)
* Ults: i.e. Sushang's Ult. (https://youtu.be/K-xIcPVVTQk?t=30)
* Herta talent follow-up (whole thing is one stack) (https://youtu.be/weprgrHxC8U?t=21)
* Clara counter (one stack, video gets one from hit) (https://youtu.be/zBkfT0Dwj1g)

Is Not in "Attack" Phase
Does not proc champion's.
General note: doesn't matter if the attack fails to do dmg, only matters if it was supposed to.

* Benediction Additional DMG (https://youtu.be/KAjem9Q_PZo?t=22)
* Non-dmg skills: i.e. March shield (https://youtu.be/fy88_rKBPkw?t=24)
* Sushang sword stance additional dmg (https://youtu.be/K-xIcPVVTQk?t=20)
* Serval extra dmg from talent (https://youtu.be/rM9KAXbUH4E?t=24)
* Break dmg: i.e. Serval break (https://youtu.be/rM9KAXbUH4E?t=24)
* Pela C6 (https://youtu.be/65myZ6EdoQ8)
* Hidden Shadow Additional DMG (https://youtu.be/tv0vG8Q3zBA)
* Sampo DoT (https://youtu.be/-bfyIL4rwng)
* Yanqing A1 Additional DMG (https://youtu.be/IARufgo56Q8)
* Initial hit (https://youtu.be/weprgrHxC8U)

unleashurgeekSat, May 27, 2023, 11:59 PM

really need that Serval test actually to see where break damage falls, before or after attack end

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:59 PM

ye i didn't put that in this ticket

unleashurgeekSat, May 27, 2023, 11:59 PM

yeah outside of this ticket thing

skySat, May 27, 2023, 11:59 PM

yeah maybe a basic-mechanics

menorSat, May 27, 2023, 11:59 PM

hmmm...

so march tech says she atks the targets and apllies freeze on them, but it doesnt actually count as a hit for the set purposes

serval tech does dmg so it counts for it

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:01 AM

tech meaning technique yeah?

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:01 AM

yes the thing you use outside of combat

to start a fight

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:01 AM

yeah

~~maze skill~~

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:01 AM

yes that

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:01 AM

https://youtu.be/K-xIcPVVTQk

Sushang Champion set test

The video still uploading

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:02 AM

I haven't looked at how they implemented those, but I guess March's attack doesn't actually deal damage so not an attack?

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:02 AM

thats my guess too

Reply to

menor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy88_rKBPkw

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:02 AM

going to this video for March, you also tested another (obvious) case. Her shield skill doesn't cause her to get a stack. So doing an action isn't enough, the action must have an attack/hit within it

Reply to

menor: serval tech does dmg so it counts for it

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:03 AM

Sushang tech deal damage and count for the champion set

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:03 AM

yeah

problably all techs that deal dmg should? but i could test more if theres any thats a outlier

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:04 AM

yeah I'd assume all tech that deal damage for now

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:04 AM

i just wrote in 'all that don't do dmg' for doesn't fall in atk phase

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:04 AM

good thing i used fmc cuz it would be annoying to test if march got hit

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:05 AM

aside: someone should test max stacks and see if it's 5 or 6

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:05 AM

i could test herta multiple follow ups

Reply to

elnawawi: https://youtu.be/K-xIcPVVTQk

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:05 AM

video should be up

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:06 AM

if it counts as 1 or multiple

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:06 AM

oh right i forgot to add the 5-6 stacks thing

Reply to

unleashurgeek: aside: someone should test max stacks and see if it's 5 or 6

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:06 AM

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:06 AM

i just need a good spot for it

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:07 AM

maybe it's length 6

0 1 2 3 4 5

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:07 AM

if it is then I need to change sim code or something lmao

Reply to

elnawawi: 5

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:08 AM

how sure are you

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:08 AM

okay i think i got a good spot for it

Reply to

unleashurgeek: how sure are you

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:08 AM

been playing Sushang with set for very long. It never went over 5

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:08 AM

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:09 AM

I can record more, if it would matter

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:09 AM

oh wait is it no stack from swordplay?

Reply to

sky: oh wait is it no stack from swordplay?

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:09 AM

no stacks from sword play

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:09 AM

not swordplay

sword stance

cool

Reply to

elnawawi: I can record more, if it would matter

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:09 AM

nah that's fine. I just separately need to do more investigation into how max stacks work in general based on datamine

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:10 AM

sword stance is not follow up attack btw

Reply to

sky: cool

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:10 AM

I'd say in general: additional damage/"pursued" attacks appear to not count as an attack

and same with dots

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:11 AM

does Serval talent work the same way as Sword stance?

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:11 AM

okay herta multiple follow ups count as only 1 stack

lemme upload it

Reply to

elnawawi: does Serval talent work the same way as Sword stance?

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:12 AM

it should be similar. There are slight differences which is why Serval is a good test too

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:12 AM

and max stacks are 5 for the set

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:12 AM

btw, sushang ultimate does add one stack

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:12 AM

btw can you guys timestamp relevant portions?

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:12 AM

in the same video

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:13 AM

so i don't miss anything

just tell me the time or something

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:13 AM

herta should should be relevant right at the start

i took off 2x just to make it easier to see

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:13 AM

Sushang ultimate adding stack is 30 second in

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:14 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weprgrHxC8U

Honkai Star Rail 2023 05 27 21 07 08

20 seconds here

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:14 AM

sushang tech is 3 seconds in

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:14 AM

ty people

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:15 AM

sword stance is 20 seconds in

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:16 AM

stupid test which you don't need to record and can just say the outcome: if you ult at the beginning of your turn (with a damaging ult) that ult generates a stack yeah?

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:17 AM

what you mean beginning? the very first action in entire battle?

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:18 AM

nope just before you take your turn

like if you ult with sushang before you use her skill or something

soloxcxSun, May 28, 2023, 12:18 AM

would love to record yanqing a1 / e1 / pela e6 but rngesus decided i will not obtain 4pc of this set today

Reply to

unleashurgeek: like if you ult with sushang before you use her skill or something

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:20 AM

Yes, I tested it on Sushang

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:20 AM

smh i can't believe you foddered the 4pc from shield shop

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:20 AM

hmmm im curious now and i'll test this soon

what if i hit something liek those bots that have block an atk

will it consider for the stack or not count cuz it did no dmg

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:22 AM

holy fuck herta

wait

Reply to

elnawawi: Yes, I tested it on Sushang

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:23 AM

ah cool I see in your vid, yeah that works thanks

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:24 AM

kay, it does count

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:24 AM

that's good to know

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:25 AM

heres the test

https://youtu.be/ZC0-GugG1Rs?t=44

Honkai Star Rail 2023 05 27 21 20 42

on the time already

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:26 AM

are there any modifiers in this game that are not dots but deal damage at the beginning or end of the turn that can be tested?

like an SU blessing or something even

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:27 AM

By the way, I just noticed something weird with Sushang.

Somehow her Riposte stacks got higher than champion set stacks ...

Reply to

unleashurgeek: are there any modifiers in this game that are not dots but deal damage at the beginning or end of the turn that can be tested?

jasSun, May 28, 2023, 12:27 AM

entanglement dmg isn't counted as dot, right?

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:27 AM

dewdrop?

jasSun, May 28, 2023, 12:28 AM

dewdrop deals damage when a character attacks

unless there's a blessing i am forgetting

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:28 AM

yeah dewdrops i believe would fall into the aditional dmg like benediction

jasSun, May 28, 2023, 12:28 AM

i think kyle meant beginning or end of enemy turn

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:29 AM

hmm...

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:29 AM

no either enemy or player

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:29 AM

oh enemy turn

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:29 AM

doesnt matter

jasSun, May 28, 2023, 12:29 AM

entanglement?

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:29 AM

entanglement and frozen both are "pursued" damage so would be a decent test I guess

jasSun, May 28, 2023, 12:29 AM

is frozen dmg not counted as dot

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:29 AM

it is not

jasSun, May 28, 2023, 12:29 AM

interesting

love when the game calls something dot but it isn't dot

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:30 AM

i think march frozen does a dmg when the enemy takes turn? at least the technique one says it does

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:30 AM

So Frozen is like entanglement, not like shock/burn/bleed?

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:31 AM

yes

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:31 AM

Good thing to know

Reply to

menor: i think march frozen does a dmg when the enemy takes turn? at least the technique one says it does

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:33 AM

yeah, I suspect this all works like dots in that it doesnt cause anything to proc

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:33 AM

Btw, initiating fight with Sushang normal attack instead of Tech doesn't add stack

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:33 AM

I'm ideally looking for any damage that is at start or end of turn which is not listed as dot or pursued, which so far does not seem like any exist

Reply to

unleashurgeek: I'm ideally looking for any damage that is at start or end of turn which is not listed as dot or pursued, which so far does not seem like any exist

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:34 AM

The other freeze status from remembrance path?

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:34 AM

yeah initial hit doesn't count

idk if that means initial hit doesn't count as an attack

or if it's just excluded from this set

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:35 AM

initial hit doesnt count as an attack

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:35 AM

cool

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:35 AM

this set doesnt do any exclusion (why it is good for testing)

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:35 AM

i'll add to list

Reply to

unleashurgeek: I'm ideally looking for any damage that is at start or end of turn which is not listed as dot or pursued, which so far does not seem like any exist

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:36 AM

Dissociation is also pursued?

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:37 AM

what's dissociation

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:37 AM

ishaequenSun, May 28, 2023, 12:37 AM

The thing from remembrance blessings

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:38 AM

It happen at enemy turn

Reply to

elnawawi: Dissociation is also pursued?

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:39 AM

yes, it is also "Pursued"

Reply to

unleashurgeek: yes, it is also "Pursued"

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:42 AM

What about the blessing that remove it and deal damage:

That's on player turn, when you attack

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:42 AM

issue is how would we test if that's an attack

Reply to

elnawawi: What about the blessing that remove it and deal damage:

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:43 AM

my guess is pursued also, but pain in the ass to verify this one

the blessing datamine is a mega mess

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:45 AM

Well, I don't have anything else in mind

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 12:45 AM

If someone wants to test this case (not directly related to the set, but you could have a set on when you do it and also check stacks when serval talent applies):
* Serval: Enemy has no shock on them. Serval causes the enemy to break w/ attack. Does serval talent proc on the shock added by break?

~~Kafka and Ren would also be some interesting test cases for this I think~~

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:48 AM

Do we need any test on mara Struck btw?

skySun, May 28, 2023, 12:49 AM

what would be different about them? probably not?

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 12:49 AM

ye i can test serval

okay

that was weird

she just broke 2 enemies with a basic atk

ohhh my serval is e1

forgot bout that

https://youtu.be/rM9KAXbUH4E?t=24

Honkai Star Rail 2023 05 27 21 49 40

here on the time

she does 3 hits so assume the aditional dmg from her talent worked?

yeah without breaking she does 1 hit on her basic

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 12:58 AM

So the shock from break proc her talent? That's something

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 01:00 AM

i guess? idk how it works if you apply shock on skill if the talent will also proc on that same turn

i dont use serval so i have no clue

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 01:04 AM

I use Serval, but I usually start with her tech

Which apply shock, break shield, and proc talent.. all before first turn

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 01:05 AM

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 01:10 AM

And shock from break deal another instance of damage on enemy turn, different from serval own shock

skySun, May 28, 2023, 01:11 AM

interesting. appears talent doesn't equal atk then

bc it only one-stacks in video

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 01:11 AM

yep

skySun, May 28, 2023, 01:11 AM

also break != atk

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 01:12 AM

break happens before attack end specifically

since her talent proc'd

skySun, May 28, 2023, 01:12 AM

interesting

i think that covers the 'one or two stacks' entry for serval even if it isn't 100% the same?

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 01:13 AM

yeah it does

Reply to

menor: i guess? idk how it works if you apply shock on skill if the talent will also proc on that same turn

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 01:14 AM

And no, Serval doesn't proc her talent in same turn she first uses her skill. That's why using her Tech in good idea

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 01:15 AM

interesting

makes sense with what kyle said that break happens before atk end

and the skill problably applies the dot after atk end

elnawawiSun, May 28, 2023, 01:16 AM

Sounds right

unleashurgeekSun, May 28, 2023, 01:16 AM

let me check her skill logic actually

yep

they make the attack end call before they apply the dots

for her skill, AttackEnd happens immediately after the adjacency damage occurs

Her skill order is basically:
1. damage primary target
2. damage adjacent targets
3. AttackEnd
4. Add buff to increase base chance to apply shock (her A2)
5. Attempt to apply shock to the enemies hit

menorSun, May 28, 2023, 01:20 AM

makes sense